Tell Us About Your Religion
What religion are you? Why?
114 Responses to “Tell Us About Your Religion”
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What religion are you? Why?
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October 3rd, 2006 at 11:06 am
I do not have a religion. Its a relationship with my Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.
October 3rd, 2006 at 11:07 am
Christian (a real one)
John 14:6
Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the father except through me.”
October 3rd, 2006 at 11:13 am
I am a member of the Lutheran Church, Missouri Synod as well as the Evangelical Lutheran Churches of America (ELCA) I live in a small Colorado town and the only Lutheran Church here is Missouri Synod. The Lutheran religion first appealed to me at the age of 18. After walking away from church during my teen years because the people of the First Christian Church were angry and judgemental (it was 1970) and very hurtful, God reached out to me through the mother of a boy friend. I found a loving, kind, and forgiving God in the Lutheran Church. The God I always felt in my heart. I am a Christian - I believe in Christ and that Christ died for my sins. I also believe in a loving and kind God - in Grace.
October 3rd, 2006 at 11:17 am
Luke 6:46
“Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do what i say?”
October 3rd, 2006 at 11:52 am
Amen, its not a religion… A RELATIONSHIP!!!
October 3rd, 2006 at 12:00 pm
a Christian. because i am confident that what the Bible says is true. again, even though it’s already been posted…
John 14:6 –
Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the father except through me.”
Romans 6:23 –
For the wages of sin is death, but the FREE GIFT of God is eternal life through Christ JESUS our Lord.
i think it would be interesting to write a similar book from people who are orthodox jews, devout muslims who pray 5 times a day and fast for ramadan and take part in the hajj, and christians who have a relationship with God in which they come to Him in prayer and daily reading of the Bible (because they want to, because they desire to deepen their relationship with God - not because they feel like it is imposed on them by legalism which is at times found in the church).
October 3rd, 2006 at 12:05 pm
i am a follower of Jesus, so you would say i am a Christian. and i agree - it’s a relationship. why am i a follower of Jesus?
John 14:6 (even though it was already posted)
Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the father except through me.”
Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death; but the FREE GIFT of God is eternal life in Christ JESUS our Lord.
i think it would be interesting to write a similar book from the perspective of an orthodox Jewish woman who keeps kosher, goes to synagogue…from a devout Muslim woman who prays 5 times a day, goes to mosque, fasts for ramadan, makes the hajj…and from a Christian woman who prays and reads the Bible daily because it is something she longs to do to know and love God more, not because it is a legalistic thing set up by the church.
October 3rd, 2006 at 12:14 pm
well said becca4
October 3rd, 2006 at 12:17 pm
NoCompromise316 is so right on! It’s not about religion - which has sadly become unexamined beliefs based on tradition. It’s all about relationship with Jesus Christ my Lord and Savior!!!
October 3rd, 2006 at 3:57 pm
I don’t belong to any organized religion, but I do feel that I have a very personal and pristine relationship with God.
October 3rd, 2006 at 4:44 pm
Radio evangalist Albert Mohler criticized the authors’ faith as “plastic” and “watered down.” He criticized The Faith Club as “a parable for our times”. What is truly a parable of our times is that within 36 minutes of this question being posted a self-proclaimed “real” christian pronounced that only she/he and his/her ilk know the truth. Why is it, I wonder, self-proclaimed “real” christians seem compelled to “foul the water” of all attempts at intelligent conversations regarding religion. Why, I wonder, are the “real” christian so frightened by the prospect of intelligent people discussing religion intelligently.
I am a christian, albeit, apparently not a real one.
October 3rd, 2006 at 5:03 pm
I also don’t belong to any religion, but I am very spritual. I am the child of Lebanese immigrents and I believe in the truth of all religions because I think it is the same. Love and kindness to our fellow man. I was so thrill to hear about this book becuase I feel the story of how it came about, spoke to the way I live my life. I have very many close friends that I love very much that are Jewish, christain, and muslim and I am so proud of the ladys that wrote this book. I hope it starts a conversation of love and understanding around the world.
October 3rd, 2006 at 6:25 pm
I would like to pose this question to anyone who has a relationship with God, but is not connected to a church. How do you determine what is truth? I’m not suggesting that your relationship with God is false…I don’t know you. And I don’t want to be misunderstood as saying that we cannot hear God speak and direct our lives. I certainly don’t think we should get caught up in legalistic religion, but the question still remains. There are so many interpretations of the Bible out there, so many opportunities to be misguided. And those who proclaim false beliefs are skilled at appearing biblical, or they may not even know that their beliefs are wrong because what they are teaching seems right to them. If you are not connected to a body of believers with a core set of beliefs, who holds you accountable? How do you know God and know truth when everyone out there has a different opinion of what that is?
October 3rd, 2006 at 7:40 pm
yesitdo, you have a good point. you said, “Why, I wonder, are the “real” christian so frightened by the prospect of intelligent people discussing religion intelligently.”
from what i think, i could be totally wrong here, but i think what live4truth was saying is that he/she is someone who has a relationship with God because of Jesus Christ and His death and resurrection. i think they were trying to make a distinction between many people who are called christians but who do not hold to the teachings of the Bible. for example, i was recently in lebanon, which is a muslim and christian country. but, there, everyone who is not a muslim is a christian. so, that could be anything - greek orthodox, catholic, maronite, christian, non-practicing muslims, ect.
i don’t think “real christians” are frightened of intelligent conversation at all (maybe i should just say, i don’t think people who follow Jesus as their Savior and have a personal relationship with Him are frightened by it at all). personally, i think intelligent conversation about it is great! talk about your beliefs with others - definitely. be passionate about what you believe it - definitely. know what you believe in and why - definitely. but also remember (i’m talking to people in general, here, not specifically saying you, yesitdo) that an indicator of our times is that people often are too busy for truth.
October 3rd, 2006 at 8:32 pm
All these faith clubs do is make you doubt your own faith, with thoughts like what if i’m wrong, and so on. Do not be misled.. there is only one absolute truth! there is only one way to heaven.. His name is JESUS CHRIST.. whether or not you believe it is totally up to you. You may not believe tomorrow is going to be wednesday, but regardless of what you think.. i guarantee it will..
October 3rd, 2006 at 8:38 pm
Religion is not about love and kindness to your fellow man!!! Religion: belief in and worship of God or gods(quoting webster’s dictionary).. Its about a relationship between you and your GOD.. not about love and kindness to your fellow man.. wake up! do not be decieved!!
October 3rd, 2006 at 8:47 pm
I am a Christian. After several turmultuos years of searching in my young adult years, I received the revelation of Christ. My life has never been the same.
October 4th, 2006 at 2:28 am
I’m sort of a cross between a Buddhist, ceremonial magician, taoist and a Hindu.
They seem to convey the best impression of how I think things are.
I go to a Unitarian Universalist church-no other place is going to accept me.
October 4th, 2006 at 11:18 am
I was raised as a Catholic, but for the past few years I´ve been a little lost in my faith.
October 4th, 2006 at 1:44 pm
Truth, that is seriously one of the saddest things I have ever read.
October 4th, 2006 at 3:33 pm
Thanks for the clarification becca4. In response to yesitdo, I in no way am against intelligent conversation about religion. In fact, almost every so-called “real christian” that I know enjoys a discussion of religion that challenges their faith and casues them to grow spiritually. However, in any discussion I will suggest that my beliefs are truth. I would not believe in the Bible and christian faith if I thought it was not truth. I am sure that everyone else out there trusts that their beliefs are truth. My point is, if you want to have an open, intelligent conversation don’t criticize those who hold true to their beliefs.
Also, I’d like to respond to yestido’s comment about the post from Truth regarding the definition of religion. You stated that it is sad that religion is about worshiping God and having a relationship with Him. If that’s where it ended, I might almost agree with you, but it doesn’t. In the Bible we are commanded to love our neighbor and love our enemies. He has given me the ability to love others that I wouldn’t have if it were not for my relationship with Him. So no, religion is not about love and kindness to your fellow man, but love is a product of knowing the God who loves you. Is that sad?
October 4th, 2006 at 3:50 pm
Thanks for the clarification becca4. In response to yesitdo, I am not in any way opposed to intelligent conversation about religion. In fact, almost every so-called “real christian” that I know enjoys a good discussion about religion that challenges their faith and causes them to grow spiritually. However, in any discussion I will suggest that what I believe is truth. I would not trust in the Bible if I thought it was not true, just as I am sure that every “real” muslim trusts that the teachings of the Qur’an are true. My point is, if you want to have an open, intelligent conversation, don’t criticize those who hold true to their faith.
Also, I’d like to respond to yesitdo’s comment about Truth’s definition of religion. You stated that religion, as the worship of God and relationship with Him, is sad. If that’s where it ended I might almost agree with you. But it doesn’t stop there. In the Bible we are commanded to love our neighbor and love our enemies. Through my relationship with Jesus Christ, He has given me the ability to love others that I wouldn’t have without His Spirit in me. So no, religion is not about love and kindness to your fellow man, but it is a product of having a relationship with the God who loves you. Is that sad?
October 4th, 2006 at 4:01 pm
oh wow.
Truth, I agree with Yesitdo, how sad, sad, sad.
Live4 truth? I’m curious why any brand of “religion” is better than another? I’m looking at your comment from another direction. How can any one “religion” profess to be the true one when there CAN be so many different interpretations of the bible!? How do you determine truth? By listening to and accepting someone else’s truth as your own? You can’t say Jesus’ truth…you weren’t there, and the bible is but one small bit of the whole story. And remember all those different interpretations. Who’s to say who’s right or wrong!
when God said that No One could come to him except through Jesus, maybe it also was a parable of sorts. Jesus is the pure embodiement(sp?) of Love. Maybe God was saying we could not come to know him except to be as Jesus was; a vessel of Love and Grace.
Anyways, I was raised very strict Traditional Catholic. In College I went a bit fundamental. At that time I thought I was finding something so different than what I was raised in. In the last day, after reading all this input, I now realize that I went from One Extreme to The Same Extreme. “We’re right and you’re not!” I stayed in that Fundamentalist thing for several years, and than experienced watered down religion for several years until this past Spring. After God revealing so much to me in so many ways, I’ve now come to know that it is all about something So Different than what any organized religion teaches. I’m still figuring it out, and I must say, the thrill is in the hunt!
I think that maybe someone who professes to be a Christian, but doesn’t belong to an organized religion, listens to their heart more. As a culture, we have become so used to reasoning and thinking with our brains only. Did you know 60% of our heart’s cells are neural cells? The same cells that make up our brain? I know for myself that over the past 6 months I’ve been using a lot more thinking with my heart, and I feel so much more of a connection to God!
October 4th, 2006 at 5:57 pm
http://www.evfcoc.org/sermonfiles-2006/2006-10-01.mp3
i recommend this link. it’s definitely worthwhile to make the time and listen to it.
October 4th, 2006 at 7:01 pm
I am an atheist, but I really applaud what you are trying to do here. Religion should be about understanding, not about dividing.
October 4th, 2006 at 7:44 pm
gracefilled - you are so right in saying there are many interpretations of the Bible!
every single person can have a different interpretation. any person can read a verse or a passage and say “what do i think it means?”. you will get a hundred different responses if you ask a hundred different people.
but, there is one true interpretation of scripture that comes not from asking “what does it mean to me?” but, “what did they author intend to communicate? who was he writing to?” look at the context of the book.
for example, look at the book of philippians - it was written by paul, when he was in prison in rome. he was writing to believers who lived in a grecian city called philippi. the theme of the book is joy! a thorough reading of the book makes that clear.
if someone asks these questions to find out the context of a book or a passage, then they will not find a ‘relativistic’ response (i think it means this…well, i think it means the opposite…it has it’s own truth based on the reader).
i say, “throw out relativism and study! look at the context, the history, the original languages…it really doesn’t take a lot of time and it’s not hard, and then you will discern what the meaning of a passage is. : ) maybe more on that later….
October 4th, 2006 at 8:02 pm
gracefilled - it’s not that “one brand of truth is better than another”. i know that you understand that it’s not a “popularity contest”. from my perspective, i desperately want people to know the truth. why? not because i know it and i want to flaunt it, not because i want to disprove everyone else through intelligent discussion, not because i enjoy debate…not at all! i want people to know THe Truth - Jesus Christ and who the Bible reveals Him to be - because He is the only way of salvation.
it’s not about proving any points. it’s about a relationship with God while we are here on earth and about spending eternity with God in Heaven when we die. only those things are offered through belief and faith in Jesus Christ and what the Bible teaches about Him. salvation is through Him alone.
‘Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me. ‘ Revelation 3:20
Jesus is knocking on the ‘door of our hearts’! He wants us to know Him! we have to ‘open the door’ and let Him come in. it’s that simple. it really is. and by opening up the door, we open up to have a relationship with Him. a life changing relationship with Him. He knows us intimately and loves us deeply and He wants us to know Him intimately and to love Him deeply, too.
i want people to know the joy and the assurance i have only in Jesus Christ. i know and love my God and will serve Him with all of my being, even my life. and He knows and loves me and He gave His life for me. how great is the God of the Bible!
October 4th, 2006 at 9:28 pm
I don’t care if you think its the saddest thing you’ve ever read.. What’s sad is that people really think it is about that.. I never said don’t love and be mean to your fellow man! follow Jesus’ example.. but remember this, Works won’t get you to heaven.. the only way to the father is through the son(Jesus Christ).. like its been said above.. its not a popularity contest, we want people to know the truth.. truth by definition is not relative.. it is the truth; reality, actual existence, an established fact. There is only one Truth. there is no way around it, regardless of how you feel.. Jesus is the absolute TRUTH.. I want to spread only the Truth.. i don’t want people to be mislead by the “the truth is different for everyone, do whatever you feel is the truth” concept of thinking.. There is an absolute truth.. Jesus has his hand stretched out for anyone who is willing to take it. I want everyone to take his hand. That is why this book is so sad to me. its supposed to bridge to gap.. find common ground.. compromise to fit everyone’s needs.. Look deeper into it.. would you ask a drowning person to right a book on how to swim, or to relate swimming to driving a car??? i would hope not.. These woman.. at least the “christian” and the “jew” aren’t true in their religion. In the jew’s own chapter exerpt. she said she doesn’t know if she believes in God she has talked about him for 3 minutes in her whole marraige.. She isn’t the one i would be asking about the Jewish God, or how to compare him the the muslim God, and My God.. Any christian who is outraged by a roadside billboard that says, “accept Jesus and you shall be saved, or regret it forever” is not a real christian.. i wouldn’t ask her for advice on strengthing my walk with GOD, or what are the comparisons between our Fod and the jewish God and the Muslim God. call me crazy but don’t think they have a very strong relationship with their own God. but some people won’t even look that deep into it they will take all their words as the truth and be misled. The greatest trick the devil ever pulled, was convince the world he didn’t exist. I am not accusing these woman as being the devil, but don’t let their words decieve you!!! Find the truth for yourself. Find Jesus. I am most certainly not condemning anyone..
John 3:18
“Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son”
October 5th, 2006 at 10:24 am
Live4 Truth wrote: “My point is, if you want to have an open, intelligent conversation, don’t criticize those who hold true to their faith.”
You began this discussion by pronouncing yourself “a real” christian which I took as a criticism of the authors of this book as well as those likeminded Christians who believe a dialouge about religion among those of other faiths is valuable. As if we are not “real” Christians because we leave room in our faith for introspection that goes beyond bible study with likeminded Christians. It is this mindset that I am critical.
What is sad about Truths’ definition of religion is it does not recognize love and kindess to our fellow man is a product of our relationship with God and our faith. In fact Truth said this principle of the Golden Rule or the ethic of reciprocity is deception. If one truly has a relationship with God, and is living his/her ilife n the image of God the ethic of reciprocity is not a ideal or goal, it is second nature.
By the way, the ethic of reciprocity or Golden Rule is found in Islam, Judaism and Christianity.
Love your neighbor as yourself. Judiasm & Christianity Leviticus 19.18
Whatever you wish that men would do to you, do so to them. Christianity Matthew 7.12
Not one of you is a believer until he loves for his brother what he loves for himself. Islam Forty Hadith of an-Nawawi.
October 5th, 2006 at 12:00 pm
I do not have a religion. I am an atheist because I am without theism, an agnostic because I am without knowledge of any gods (aside from those of mythology) , and a humanist because I live my life according to humanist principles. My own view is that everyone is atheistic about someone else’s thiesm–about someone else’s religion–unless, of course they embrace them all. Because I am without theism does not mean I have no basis to connect with folks who do. I think it is our shared humanity which is the best basis for communication and connection.
October 5th, 2006 at 12:09 pm
Yesitdo, just to clarify, it was actually NoCompromise316 that made a comment about being a “real christian”, not me. And it was not my intention to suggest that the authors, or anyone else for that matter, are not “real” christians or true to their own religions. I don’t know them or their hearts, so I can’t know the depth of their faith.
October 5th, 2006 at 12:27 pm
btw, I think NoCompromise’s intention in making the distinction of being a “real chistian” was that there are a lot of people that say they are christians only because they have some sort of connection to a christian church or that was their parents’ religion. However, a “real christian” has a relationship with God and trusts in Jesus Christ as their savior. Their is a difference between those who merely claim the label, and those who live the faith.
October 5th, 2006 at 3:59 pm
AMEN! live4Truth you are exactly right. I was not criticizing anyone. I was simply stating myself to be a Real Christian, one who lives by faith in God. And there is a huge difference between those who merely claim the label, and those who actually live it. I live my life for God(Father, Son(Jesus), and the Holy Spirit). I don’t just claim to be a christian. I am a Christian. I would die for the Truth(real christian beliefs) I am not saying that anyone else is not a Real Christian. I have respect for other religions, but that doesn’t mean i think that they are right, or the truth. people say that definition of religion is sad.. Truth didn’t make it up. Thats Webster’s Dictionary definition for religion.. what is sad is that people don’t realize that it is the ultimate form of hatred for our fellow man to have the truth and, in the presence of those who need it most, not proclaim it.
October 5th, 2006 at 4:16 pm
live4truth asked how if you don’t go to church can you feel connected to
God. I am connected to God through my faith in him. I do not trust the church because they preach their version of the bible not Gods. I have tried many churches in many states and they all basically say ,do as I say. Gods says the priest, reverend,or minister should preach about Him and to bring all men to him. I find that most ministers preach to bring people to “their” church. I love God deep in my heart and soul and I know God loves me. I try to be a good person and to love all. Sometimes i fail, then i talk to God about my failure and i listen for his answer in my soul. sometimes he shows me his answer in my friends or neighbors . I find Gods love in all things
October 5th, 2006 at 4:26 pm
i don’t think we’re saying that the relationship between a man and his God is what’s sad…it’s that such a blatant disregard for Love of your fellow man is sad. I guess maybe I midunderstood.
please explain what you mean by “Wake up-don’t be deceived!” It’s a conspiracy or something? what?
It’s one thing to proclaim your truth and share your experiences, but it doing that, one needs to recognize that there are MANY different truths out there, and people who have all the down-pat answers for them, just as you do!
October 5th, 2006 at 5:44 pm
I was raised Christian. I attended both Baptist and Methodist services every Sunday morning. I am now a Research Scientist which as has caused extreme waves in any of the churches that I used to attend. Apparently you can’t believe in God and Evolution at the same time, or at least that’s what I have been told by pasters as they accompany me out the door. My desire for new knowledge has led me to question everything I was taught as a child. Why does this know exclude me as a adult from being a member of these same churches? Shouldn’t I be exactly the person you want in your congregation. I need to be witnessed to, in the churches opinion. I would like to better understand these “Truths” without the hateful connotations that seem to always come with them. Anyone know what church this would be???
October 5th, 2006 at 6:55 pm
Once again, truth is not relative. It is not different for everyone. There is only one truth.
John 14:6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”
October 5th, 2006 at 7:48 pm
I believe in God and I study the teachings of the Bible, not necessarily the teachings of any religious leader in any of the many holy places. This is a choice that I made after many years of worshiping in a church, and then too much of what was taught didn’t make since anymore. But the God I know is loving and forgiving of all his children not just the ones that call themselves Christians, Muslims, Jews or any other religion or lack there of. Too many religions believe that only their people are the chosen ones, God chooses all of us. We are all Gods children no matter how we worship or by what name we call Him.
October 5th, 2006 at 10:28 pm
I personally don’t think it’s impossible to believe in both evolution and God.
The way I see it is that evolution isn’t perfect but it’s the best scientific answer we have. A lot of it seems very plausible to me and explains lots and lots of stuff.
And, as I am a Christian, if you look at the creation story as saying maybe one day could’ve been thousands of years then evolution could fit with the bible. I mean it says the water was all there was at first before God created land and the water animals were the first animals…most scientists think it took a while for land to appear and the first animals were water animals…
Evolution doens’t phase my belief in God. How can it when I see how amazingly people, animals, the earth is made. And only God could create soul and spirit to me. Quite possibly evolution could’ve been the way God chose to create.
And I am looking for a church like that too Can’tWeJustGetAlong. Ranya’s not alone in the way she felt looking for a mosque, and even here on this board there was a Christian that said “I’m a Christian (a real one)…” sure.
October 6th, 2006 at 12:58 am
CanWeJustGetAlong wrote:
>
and MaryAlice wrote:
>
Many people are able to embrace a religion and still respect the scientific method and scientific theories. Perhaps you might give some thought to the pastor’s possible agenda and illiteracy in matters scientific. I would suggest a very good book by someone who considers himself to be a good Catholic, Kenneth Miller: Finding Darwin’s God. Dr. Miller testified at the Dover trials, transcripts of which are also fascinating reading. There is a lot of useful information at the NCSE’s web site, including a list of religious organizations which endorse the scientific theory of evolution http://www.ncseweb.org/resources/articles/5025_statements_from_religious_orga_12_19_2002.asp
and a very readible “brochures” about religion and science.
http://www.natcenscied.org/article.asp?category=11
Good luck.
PS: What is “pinging”? I thought that had something to do with an internal combustian engine.
October 6th, 2006 at 1:03 am
live4Truth wrote:
>
I think “truth” is very relative. There is no universal truth, which by definition is something accepted by everyone as true.
If truth were not relative, there would be no way to rationalize capital punishment. It would not be possible for folks to treasure life, yet sanction the state’s (some states’) execution of people regardless of their crime.
October 6th, 2006 at 10:06 am
the “wake up, do not be decieved” meant simply that to tmilani’s blatant disregard for the true definition of religion. As its said above, love and kindness to your fellow man comes as a commandment from God, but no God, no commandment. You need God first and foremost. You are saved by grace, not by works. Jesus’ grace. Maybe you did misunderstand..
Truth by definition is reality; actual existance, an established fact.. so if its not true to everyone then it didn’t happen, then its not true.. fact is.. it did happen. it is True. whether you chose to “believe” it or not is totally up to you. but there is no such thing as relative truth.. is there such thing as a true lie….? you can’t relate truth to anything other than truth or lie.. absolute truth, or absolute lie. there is no in between. Truth is not a suggestion. It is the truth. and about humanist comment.. there is no universal truth? does everyone not agree that without oxygen we will die.. does everyone not agree about the law (truth, an established fact) of gravity, what goes up must come down. Does everyone not agree that night is followed by day, that day is followed by night? I would have to say all of those are universal truths.. accepted by everyone as true.. don’t call something the truth if it isn’t.. call it your suggestion.. call it whatever you want but don’t say relative truth.. that is by definition an oxymoron.. relative means not absolute.. Truth is absolute. that is why it is upheld as the Truth.. not the idea.. so everytime someone says relative truth they are saying an unabsolute absolute..? Does that make any sense..? relative is a suggestion, an opinion. Not the Truth. Truth is only comparible with a Lie. One is real(reality, actual existance, an established fact) One is false(not reality, not in actual existance, not an established fact). The Bible is more than a religious book. It is actually a history book. An established fact.. the people who wrote the Bible were there.. Were scientists there? No. but yet we choose to believe them, who in essence are no greater than we are, instead of the Holy Word of God, breathed by God himself into existance.
canwealljustgetalong.. Go to a Bible preaching church.. don’t pick a denomination. Evolution is disprove with the very first words of the Bible.
Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
We didn’t evolve from something else.. we didn’t create ourselves. Adam wasn’t an Ape. i never heard any crazy stories from the zoo about the apes giving birth to humans.. If evolution were true, why are there still apes, and fish, and one-celled organisms.? With what did the first cell capable of sexual reproduction reproduce? God created us. Evolution is the product of man’s having to explain their existence. Evolution is nothing more than a pagan religion masquerading as science.
humanist could you explain your last paragraph a little more in depth? I have never heard of the state executing people regardless of their crime.. usually its a pretty serious crime. Like Capital Murder.. or terrorist acts that involve people dying. I never heard of people accused of sexual harrasment being executed, or Jay walkers, or petty theifs, or welfare fraud.. just please explain that to me?
October 6th, 2006 at 10:07 am
Also, i meant God in my statement a little further above, i had a typo. *God instead of Fod. sorry
October 6th, 2006 at 11:46 am
humanist, do you believe absolutely that there is no absolute truth?
October 6th, 2006 at 1:10 pm
masallah - in one sense, you are right, everyone who is alive on earth is a child of God. why? because He created us, He made us, we are His creation.
on the other hand, however, the Bible makes it clear that people are only children of God if they have received Him - aka believe the gospel as the Bible teaches:
- that no one is good, that we all have sinned (Romans 3:12, 3:23)
- that God loves us and sent His Son, Jesus, to forgive us of our sins by taking our sins upon Himself (John3:16)
- that Jesus died and came back to life (Mark 16:6)
- that we need to have faith in Jesus and Him alone for salvation (John 14:6)
- that salvation is a free gift from God, and no matter how good we think we are we will never earn it or deserve it. it is free if we accept it! (Romans 6:23)
“But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God…” (John 1:12)
“See how great a love the Father has bestowed on us, that we would be called children of God; and {such} we are. For this reason the world does not know us, because it did not know Him. ” (I John 1:3)
check out…
http://www.searchgodsword.org/com/bcc/view.cgi?book=1jo&chapter=3&verse=1#1Jo3_1
…for a little bit more clarification on the verse from I John 1:3.
“By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother. ” (I John3:10)
“By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments. ” (I John 5:2)
does this make sense? does this help provide clarification from the perspective of the Bible and from what a follower of Jesus believes (me)?
October 6th, 2006 at 1:42 pm
What exactly is righteousness? Sincerely, I never have understood this concept. Thanks
October 6th, 2006 at 1:46 pm
With all due respect to you as a person, “Truth” the bible is not undisputable fact. You have faith, so you believe this. But you can’t prove it any more than I can disprove it. However, I can’t argue with some of what is contained in the bible or the torah or the quran. They all contain some valuable lessons on how we can live our lives.
October 6th, 2006 at 2:36 pm
To All,
I would like to pose a question. whose definition of ” Love and Kindness ” do
YOU follow? The Muslins? The Atheist? The Taliban? Your neighbors? Your bosses?
Your own?
interesting isn’t it?
Who has the right definition of Love? If we all think we have the right way to show Love , we will never get along.
Seems like a dilema.
But thank God He gave us the anwser. If we all follow His Word and HIS definition of
Love , this would be heaven on earth.
And to everyone who call yourself a ” Christian”. Do you really know what it means
to be a Christian.
Let me give a little history lesson.
After Christ gave His life for us all on the cross, The first believers in Jesus where
living their lives doing what He had taught them to do and because They were acting
like Christ, The Romans called those followers of Christ a derogatory name “Christians ” Can you be accused of acting and doing those things Christ has asked you to do in His Word?
October 6th, 2006 at 4:14 pm
I will pray for you pattip. and i will pray for an answer to give you, but as of right now you are right, i can’t prove it anymore than you can disprove, but at least i’m tryin to prove it. Show me some of your evidence that can disprove it. Some of my evidence that can prove it would be it answers questions the scientists can’t like where we came from, how we came to be, how we came to speak different languages, Tell me, who lit the fuse for the big bang. Thats the only other theory out there..
October 6th, 2006 at 5:06 pm
I don’t need to prove something doesn’t exist. Just like you want proof that of who lit the big bang fuse, you need to prove that something does exist. Thank you for your patient answer to my question though. I truly appreciate it.
Loving Jesus, can you act like a Christian and not be a Christian?
October 6th, 2006 at 5:08 pm
I should add, I think that there was a person named Jesus and he encouraged certain values that I agree with. The bible is not the word of god, just the word of believers in god. So, that’s why I am an atheist. I don’t believe in a god.
October 6th, 2006 at 6:01 pm
Truth IS relative! I see it on a daily basis with my children!
and who cares if evolution or creationism is the right belief?! Seriously, this is not needed for salvation, according to everything i’ve learned! With that discussion, we digress from the real issues. Righteousness=acting in accord with divine or moral law, according to the dictionary. I’m sure what John meant was that a follower of God needs to be righteous in these matters…sinning…not in condemning someone else for taking a different path than you? we need to stand up for what is morally right or wrong. And always in love! But taking different paths is not a matter of morals.
once again, one of you who are so well versed: Please tell me who is right if the bible can be interpreted so many different ways?
October 6th, 2006 at 6:30 pm
I have a question for the bible thumpers of the group. Do you celebrate Christmas? and why? Please share.
October 6th, 2006 at 6:46 pm
Prove or disprove, is this possible? I think it is, maybe not every detail of the entire Bible that would take a lifetime to even attempt, but I think if you really wanted to do your homework and there was something that you wanted to have clarity on you could get a better understanding of what is being said by doing your research and not just reading it and taking the word of a pastor for their interpretations. Question everything. If you prove it to be correct you are just affirming to yourself that the teachings you have received are correct which is great, but if you find it to mean something else then what you have been lead to believe then maybe it is time to look for further meaning of what the Bible is really telling us.
October 6th, 2006 at 7:29 pm
i guess i am a Bible thumper - i believe the Bible to be what it says it is - the very word of God (check out 1 Thessalonians 2:13)…
i looked up the verse in the original language, ancient greek, and the word “word” in the 1 Thess. 2:13 - you really need to look it up to track with me here - is logos. this is what logos means:
1. of speech
a. the sayings of God
b. decree, mandate or order
c. of the moral precepts given by God
d. Old Testament prophecy given by the prophets
all that to say, yup, i celebrate Christmas. why? because i’m celebrating when Jesus came to earth in the form of a man, well, a baby first….then a man. you know what i mean.
and, someone will probably say, “but you don’t even know if he was born on December 25th.” i’m ok if i don’t have the exact day. that’s not the point and isn’t really an issue. i’m celebrating and i’m rejoicing that God took human form so that we could see a human representation of Himself. i am SOO INCREDIBLY thankful for that!
and yeah, part of american culture is to give presents and sing jingle bells ect. i do that, too. but, don’t forget “the reason for the season” - Jesus! that’s why i celebrate Christmas.
October 6th, 2006 at 7:30 pm
and this is why i celebrate Christmas….
Hark the herald angels sing
“Glory to the newborn King!
Peace on earth and mercy mild
God and sinners reconciled”
Joyful, all ye nations rise
Join the triumph of the skies
With the angelic host proclaim:
“Christ is born in Bethlehem”
Hark! The herald angels sing
“Glory to the newborn King!”
Christ by highest heav’n adored
Christ the everlasting Lord!
Late in time behold Him come
Offspring of a Virgin’s womb
Veiled in flesh the Godhead see
Hail the incarnate Deity
Pleased as man with man to dwell
Jesus, our Emmanuel
Hark! The herald angels sing
“Glory to the newborn King!”
Hail the heav’n-born Prince of Peace!
Hail the Son of Righteousness!
Light and life to all He brings
Ris’n with healing in His wings
Mild He lays His glory by
Born that man no more may die
Born to raise the sons of earth
Born to give them second birth
Hark! The herald angels sing
“Glory to the newborn King!”
October 6th, 2006 at 7:46 pm
I stopped celebrating Christmas on December 25th after I learned that date originated from the Pagans. And that the true reason for this date was the birth of Isis the Son God, not to be confused with the Son of God. Then I asked myself, why am I in a church that is preaching Christianity and Celebrating Paganisum? As with Easter as well.
October 6th, 2006 at 7:59 pm
Masalla - do you celebrate the birth of Jesus? or the resurrection of Jesus? can you explain what Isis the Son God is? i’m not familiar with that. thanks!
one more question for clarification…are you grouping christianity and paganism together (aka, calling christianity paganism?) or are you saying you, personally, are making a distinction, but the church you were in was not making that separation? sorry, i was confused about that one.
October 6th, 2006 at 8:41 pm
I guess i am qualified to answer your christmas question.. I celebrate the brith of Jesus’ regardless of when he was actually born.. we don’t do Santa Claus or jingle bells or any of that. We don’t put up a tree. We simply put up a Nativity Scene and sing happy birthday to Jesus. I think we have had cake on the day as well.. I celebrate it because i believe it brings honor to my King. As to what your saying, God knows my heart.. and he knows that i am not celebrating in the lawlessness of the pagans.. And as far as Easter.. i don’t incorporate the bunnies, and baskets and eggs, It comes right after the Jewish holiday of passover.. which was when Jesus actually died.. Good Friday.. Then Rose again on Sunday.. Whether or not they incorporated the name.. Oh well.. I dont go saying Happy Easter.. I just celebrate the day he rose again. you should have put the sun god, not to be confused with the Son of God.. i was pretty confused for a minute.. but yeah.. So when exactly do you celebrate Christmas?? and why? and Easter, and Why?
October 6th, 2006 at 8:42 pm
it says the sun god.. like the sun in the sky..
October 6th, 2006 at 8:43 pm
not masallah, but the internet calls it the sun god
October 6th, 2006 at 9:30 pm
That is a good question masallah. My understanding is that the birth of Christ is celebrated in December because this conincides with the winter solstice and the celebrations of the romans were already established times of celebrations. However, as you said masallah the actual birth of Christ appears to have taken place in the Spring.
October 7th, 2006 at 12:01 am
# becca4 wrote: “humanist, do you believe absolutely that there is no absolute truth?”
Any opinion I hold is subject to investigation and criticism. I am always willing to consider new evidence. If you know of a universal truth (which by definition is something accepted by everyone as true), please let me know about it.
October 7th, 2006 at 12:07 am
“‘T’ruth” wrote: “humanist could you explain your last paragraph a little more in depth? I have never heard of the state executing people regardless of their crime.”
Sorry to have confused you. I did not mean to suggest that the execution
had nothing to do with the crime. If it makes it easier to understand, and you want to address my comment, this might be easier for you to address:
I think “truth” is very relative. There is no universal truth, which by definition is something accepted by everyone as true.
If truth were not relative, there would be no way to rationalize capital punishment. It would not be possible for folks to treasure life, yet sanction the state’s (some states’) execution of people. Life is either sacred or it isn’t.
October 7th, 2006 at 12:18 am
“‘T’ruth” wrote: “All these faith clubs do is make you doubt your own faith, with thoughts like what if i’m wrong, and so on. ”
Goodness sake!! Don’t dare examine what you have been told!! You might begin to think for yourself. Quelle disastre!
I examine my opinion and the things I believe and take for granted all the time. I think it is logical and healthy to do so.
October 7th, 2006 at 2:28 am
I am quoting “Truth” on this, but i think they make a pretty valid point. and some good examples of universal truths.
Truth by definition is reality; actual existance, an established fact.. so if its not true to everyone then it didn’t happen, then its not true.. fact is.. it did happen. it is True. whether you chose to “believe” it or not is totally up to you. but there is no such thing as relative truth.. is there such thing as a true lie….? you can’t relate truth to anything other than truth or lie.. absolute truth, or absolute lie. there is no in between. Truth is not a suggestion. It is the truth. and about humanist comment.. there is no universal truth? does everyone not agree that without oxygen we will die.. does everyone not agree about the law (truth, an established fact) of gravity, what goes up must come down. Does everyone not agree that night is followed by day, that day is followed by night? I would have to say all of those are universal truths.. accepted by everyone as true.. don’t call something the truth if it isn’t.. call it your suggestion.. call it whatever you want but don’t say relative truth.. that is by definition an oxymoron.. relative means not absolute.. Truth is absolute. that is why it is upheld as the Truth.. not the idea.. so everytime someone says relative truth they are saying an unabsolute absolute..? Does that make any sense..? relative is a suggestion, an opinion. Not the Truth. Truth is only comparible with a Lie. One is real(reality, actual existance, an established fact) One is false(not reality, not in actual existance, not an established fact). The Bible is more than a religious book. It is actually a history book. An established fact.. the people who wrote the Bible were there.. Were scientists there? No. but yet we choose to believe them, who in essence are no greater than we are, instead of the Holy Word of God, breathed by God himself into existance.
Humanist……… Did the Bible not preach an eye for an eye in the old testament? I am not saying i agree or disagree with capital punishment. But i believe life is sacred, but i also believe Capital Punishment is used as a deterant in order to keep life sacred. And there need to be strict punishments for harsh offences. It still is not relative truth. The state as a whole has capital punishment, they all know it is a possible sentence. I believe that the sentence must be relative to the crime, but i don’t see how thats relative truth. It was never stated that there is no such thing as relativity, but there is no such thing as a relative truth, which by definition is an unabsolute absolute…..? Things can relate to other things, but tell me what can the truth relate to? either the truth or a lie, nothing else. you can’t relate truth to a person’s opinion. Than a relative truth is nothing more than an opinion. But there is an absolute truth. Jesus answered i am the way the TRUTH and the life. Truth to be accepted by everyone. It is their choice on whether or not to excpet it. Don’t make a fancy statement such as “relative truth” just say my opinion. But Jesus is the absolute truth.
October 7th, 2006 at 11:36 am
no…the people who wrote the bible were not all there! Many were, but not all! I’m mostly talking old testament. a lot of those stories were handed down thru generations…and again, similar versions exist in all sorts of tribal and ancient cultures that never even heard of The Bible! Also, the Bible does act as history, i believe, because so many of the events can be also proven scientifically. However, the Bible came into being in the 7th century, in it’s earliest forms. And not until the 1500’s in the form we know it today! The church at that time (the Roman Catholic Church) took a very small percentage of what it had and put it into the bible. Again…there is so much MORE out there! THis is not a perfect little book that was carried around from the time of Jesus.
October 7th, 2006 at 2:41 pm
your right. Nobody was there when God created the heavens and the Earth.. and when i say the Bible i am talking about the Holy inspired Word of God. Which came into being long before the 7th century. The prophecies in Daniel and other books talk about the coming of Jesus, and how you will know the true savior, long before he came. And yeah they weren’t all there, but None of the scientists where. And the Dead Sea Scrolls interpret exactly with The Bible and the were written between 3rd century B.C. to 68 A.D. Thats the time when Jesus walked. And Jesus did not call it the Bible. It is the Word of God(Holy Scriptures). which is a perfect collection of God breathed writings carried around since the time of Jesus. The Word Bible means collection of books. The one Catholics claim was the first Pope was Peter. Who walked with Jesus himself. In fact The four Gospels all walked with Jesus. And quote his exact words. So it was around since the time of Jesus. Nobody spoke the English we know today until the 1500’s. Everything is in another language. All of it. Paul who wrote more books of the Bible than anyone else. Paul knew Jesus after his resurection. still you believe some of the bible as history because it confirms with your Science. Were any, even one, even a known relative of one, Around in even the 7th century? Jesus’ brother wrote the book of James. But if it comes between God and Science. I believe God. Our science changes everyday. God is constant. always was, and will always be.
October 7th, 2006 at 2:43 pm
Science once said, the earth is flat. It once said the sun revolved around the earth. Nine planets in the solar system, well until recently. Forget Science, science is an opinion.
October 7th, 2006 at 2:44 pm
science changes everyday.. No consistancy.. Just theories..
October 7th, 2006 at 9:55 pm
Forget science? No consistency? The bible is full of inconsistencies. You must be kidding?
October 7th, 2006 at 9:57 pm
And, the bible is not necessarily fact at all. So how can you preach all this stuff about fact? C’mon, now get a grip here.
October 8th, 2006 at 1:04 am
“Truth” wrote: “All these faith clubs do is make you doubt your own faith, with thoughts like what if i’m wrong, and so on. ”
Goodness gracious! If you feel that your “religion” can’t be wrong then how come your particular way of hasn’t existed since the times of Jesus but there are no documented cases of rocks crying out in praise to G-d? Doesn’t the Bible say that the rocks would cry out? Someone has always existed who was worshiping the “right way” but how do we know who it is? Quit talking everything that’s fed to you for truth and get into the word of G-d and find the answers for yourself even if it takes a Jew or a Muslim to guide you to the answer! Learning what others believe never hurt anyone…
Adina Tikva
October 9th, 2006 at 2:21 am
No Compromise 316 wrote: “Humanist… Did the Bible not preach an eye for an eye in the old testament?”
The OT also preached to kill unruly children. It preached stoning adulterers. It preached a whole bunch of stuff no one takes seriously.
Killing convicted killers is an example of situational ethics.
October 9th, 2006 at 2:29 am
No Compromise 316 said: “The state as a whole has capital punishment,”
Actually some states and many other countries do not have capital punishment. Capital punishment is not universally embraced. Wikipedia offers this: “Among democratic countries around the world, most European and Latin American states have abolished capital punishment while the United States, Guatemala, and most of the Caribbean as well as democracies in Asia and Africa retain it. Among nondemocratic countries, the use of the death penalty is common but not universal.”
October 9th, 2006 at 2:31 am
gracefilled wrote: “However, the Bible came into being in the 7th century, in it’s earliest forms. And not until the 1500’s in the form we know it today!”
No one has the original. All you have are copies of copies of copies of copies. I recommend Misquoting Jesus: The Story Behind Who Changed the Bible and Why by Bart D. Ehrman.
October 9th, 2006 at 2:37 am
“‘T’ruth” said: “science changes everyday.. No consistancy.. Just theories..”
Of course science changes. That is what makes it science. If we learn better information of course we scrap what has been disproven.
However, there is consistance. The scientific method is consistent.
October 9th, 2006 at 12:32 pm
humansist - in response to you saying that you believe in relative truth and that there is no absolute truth, i was wondering…
do you believe absolutely that there is no absolute truth? because if you believe that truth is relative, and you believe that absolutely, then you absolutely believe that truth is relative. which is impossible. you can’t believe absolutely that there is no absolute truth. so, universally, there has to be at least one absolute truth - either 1) you believe absolutely in absolute truth or 2) you believe absolutely there is no absolute truth (which is impossible) so, you’re left with option #1. does that make sense?
October 9th, 2006 at 2:53 pm
a friend of mine couldn’t have said it better:
But I do think that it’s dangerous if we never think about it. Love, grace, mercy, compassion, understanding, listening, gentleness, and meekness have everything to do with following Christ and being His ambassadors. Scripture is replete with examples of God’s tenderness and compassion as well as exhortations for us to reflect Him in these things. But it’s also chock-full of preaching. In fact, the entire book is one massive story designed to “preach” to a world full of sinners about the wickedness of our hearts, the error of our ways, the destiny of those who turn their backs on God, and the glory of free salvation in Jesus Christ. It tells us what’s real, not just what we want to hear. And the God who wrote it did so because He loves us.
He loves us so much that in His Book there are fire-and-brimstone prophets, mind-blowing judgments, sermons from cover to cover, toe-to-toe confrontations, and a lot of things said that stop us dead in our tracks and, unless our hearts are changed, make us very, very mad at God for saying them.
If you love someone but don’t tell them the truth that they need to hear, you’re not really loving them. You’re probably loving yourself. You’re loving yourself so much that you’d rather maintain a comfortable relationship with them and keep their mind and emotions at ease than inform them of the truth that will save their lives.
I want to do both. I want to love people and I want to tell them the truth. I want to meet their tangible needs and weep with them and listen to them pour out the aches of their hearts, and I also want to speak an honest, sincere, straightforward, unwavering message of truth that can only heal as it wounds.
If I claim to follow Jesus, I don’t think that I can pick one or the other. Because Jesus didn’t leave me a choice between the two.
October 9th, 2006 at 3:00 pm
and again…
Every day we wake up with a choice: a choice to live by faith in Christ or to live by sight. A choice between what we see and what we know. A choice between a persuasive appearance and a concrete reality. This choice is simple, but it’s not easy. Sometimes it’s easy, when faith and sight match up: God is good, and we feel good. But often it’s not, because often we don’t feel good. Often God wraps the black blindfold of uncertainty around our heads, cinches it tight, and says, “Walk… and smile… and sing.” Is He cruel to do so? Only to the man who trusts in himself and wants to be comfortable more than he wants to be spiritual. But the man who knows God and who knows himself knows that God only blindfolds His children because the place He wants them to go is so beautiful that He will do anything to get them there, and sometimes the path is hard enough that they might not walk it if they could see it. But both are in God’s perfect plan: the path, and the destination.
Things are always going according to plan. Not just in hindsight, and not just in heaven. The question is which blueprint you’re looking at, whose map you’re following, and whether or not you’re willing to walk with a blindfold… and smile… and sing.
October 10th, 2006 at 2:52 am
I had previously offered: “I would suggest a very good book by someone who considers himself to be a good Catholic, Kenneth Miller: Finding Darwin’s God. Dr. Miller testified at the Dover trials, transcripts of which are also fascinating reading.”
I found Miller being interviewed by Steven Colbert on YouTube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4DJznVkFfU&NR
Enjoy!
October 10th, 2006 at 2:56 am
becca wrote: “do you believe absolutely that there is no absolute truth? because if you believe that truth is relative, and you believe that absolutely, then you absolutely believe that truth is relative. which is impossible.”
My beliefs have nothing to do with relative truth.
However, my opinions and what I believe are subject to investigation and criticism. I will change my opinions/beliefs when I am presented with (or I find) verifiable data which indicates my opinions/beliefs are mistaken.
October 10th, 2006 at 2:01 pm
The essence of the Liberal outlook lies not in what opinions are held, but in how they are held: instead of being held dogmatically, they are held tentatively, and with a consciousness that new evidence may at any moment lead to their abandonment.
– Bertrand Russell
October 10th, 2006 at 3:08 pm
“‘T’ruth” wrote: “God is constant. always was, and will always be.”
Actually, “‘G’od” is anything but constant. There are many different ideas about just what or who god is. Your interpretation of your deity of choice may be very different from that of someone else.
“Why Truth Matters and How Truth is Defined:
“It may sound odd to wonder how and why truth matters — under most circumstances the importance of truth should be obvious. Nevertheless, the question of truth does have problems which are difficult to address; among them is the question of what role the notion of ‘truth’ plays in our philosophy and our understanding of the world around us. … ”
http://atheism.about.com/od/philosophyepistemology/a/DefinitionTruth.htm?nl=1
October 10th, 2006 at 9:06 pm
I had previously addressed “Why Truth Matters and How Truth is Defined”
October 10th, 2006 at 10:41 pm
wow, im befuddled after reading so many of these posts. its crazy how quickly people are ready to follow like a cult. the bible was originally written in hebrew and many of the interpretations into english were made up because there are no english interpretations for many of the hebrew words, phrases and terms. And even besides that, the bible is a book, a piece of literature written by man, men. it their interpretations of what ‘god’ supposedly said. and then theres these crazy cult following cant-be-individualistic-folks makin their own interpretations and trying to shove them down the throats of thinking individuals. Heres a quote that makes some sence, more than most of these posts i’ve read.
“I have come to know that there is an invisible, untouchable, odorless, and yet very real intelligence in back of, or supporting, all form. This intelligence has been labeled many things. Some call it god, others the life force, higher consciousness, the divine spirit [collective energies of the universe]. The label is unimportant. The living of it matters immensely. It is a feeling similar to what Carl Jung was expressing when an interviewer asked him if he believed in god. His startling answer was, “No.” After a thoughtful pause, he continued, “I know there is a god.”
the higher being, however you call it, is based on love and inclusion. anyone who tells me (or others) that there is only ‘one way’ to be connected to ‘god’ is worthy of zero recognition.
please, by all means, contact me via my email @ rvnfthr8@hotmail.com
BTW, I so commend you 3 women on your work. I totally believe God is working thru the 3 of you. God loves us all. God is not judgemental. Only humans are. And most of us suck. Its the few special ones like you all that help to make sense of the world.
October 10th, 2006 at 10:43 pm
NAMASTE
I honor the place in you
in which the entire Universe dwells.
I honor the place in you
which is of Love, of Truth, of Light and of Peace.
When you are in that place in you,
and I am in that place in me,
we are One.
October 10th, 2006 at 11:04 pm
relativity is relative, perseption is a matter of perspective. Einstein
who, by the way, believed in the ‘lord’.
October 10th, 2006 at 11:10 pm
This choice is simple, but it’s not easy. Sometimes it’s easy,
becca4 says is one of those crazy cult following cant-be-individualistic-folks makin their own interpretations and trying to shove them down the throats of thinking individuals.
October 11th, 2006 at 1:53 am
RVNFTHR8 said: “the higher being, however you call it, is based on love and inclusion.”
Upon what do you base that assumption?
October 11th, 2006 at 2:01 am
RVNFTHR8 said: “Einstein who, by the way, believed in the ‘lord’.”
Whose ‘lord’? What ‘lord’? How do you know that?
“It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.” — Albert Einstein, 1954, from Albert Einstein: The Human Side, edited by Helen Dukas and Banesh Hoffman, Princeton University Press
“I believe in Spinoza’s God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with the fates and actions of human beings.” — Albert Einstein, following his wife’s advice in responding to Rabbi Herbert Goldstein of the International Synagogue in New York, who had sent Einstein a cablegram bluntly demanding “Do you believe in God?”
“It seems to me that the idea of a personal God is an anthropological concept which I cannot take seriously. I also cannot imagine some will or goal outside the human sphere…. Science has been charged with undermining morality, but the charge is unjust. A man’s ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death.” — Albert Einstein, “Religion and Science,” New York Times Magazine, 9 November 1930
October 11th, 2006 at 11:27 am
rvnfthr8 - i’m afraid that you have misinterpreted my posts (and i’m guessing - correct me if i’m wrong - that you believe, like einstein, that “relativity is relative, perception is a matter of perspective”, then you can interpret my posts however you want, regardless of what i was really saying).
it is not my intention in any way to shove things down people’s throats. on the contrary, i want to present the gospel, present what the bible says based on what i have studied. i have studied the Bible and continue to do so.
i am frustrated, similarly to you, at people who do shove things down people’s throats. however, i believe that i respond differently to people who do so. rather than calling people “crazy cult following cant-be-individualistic-folks makin their own interpretations” i choose to not respond in anger or frustration.
since you do feel, however, that i am shoving things down people’s throats, could you please copy and paste the sections in which i did that so i can apologize if necessary to the appropriate people? thanks.
also, only the old testament was written in hebrew. the new testament was written in greek (and a few lines in aramaic).
October 11th, 2006 at 1:06 pm
I am an atheist but I believe God exists. God is a word. The word God exists.
People use word all the time in sentences so the word God has meaning. People
have real experiences with the word God and what the word God means. People’s
experiences of God are real and can not be denied.
The reason I am an atheist is I believe too many people idolize the words of
their bibles. In a desparate search for meaning people idol worship their
religious icons and rituals to the point where they become meaningless. When
someone has a genuine experience of the divine it can not be expressed in words.
Modern religion is more about organizing political power than it is about
spirituality.
October 13th, 2006 at 12:17 am
humanist Says:
October 11th, 2006 at 1:53 am
RVNFTHR8 said: “the higher being, however you call it, is based on love and inclusion.”
Upon what do you base that assumption?
rvnfthr8 says: on my own feelings and interpretations
October 13th, 2006 at 12:30 am
humanist Says:
October 11th, 2006 at 2:01 am
RVNFTHR8 said: “Einstein who, by the way, believed in the ‘lord’.”
Whose ‘lord’? What ‘lord’? How do you know that?
“The Intuitive Edge” pg 53
‘Einstein must have had evaluative intuition working on his theory of general relativity, because he seemed to be unreasonably confident it would stand up to empirical testing. For 2 yrs the scientific world prepared for the solar eclipse of May 29, 1919, when conditions would allow them to see whether starlight would be affected by the sun’s gravitational field as the theory predicted. According to Einstein’s biographer, Jeremy Bernstein, the great man was in Princeton when the results were computed. A student reported that she was engaged in conversation with Einstein when he casually handed her a telegram that had been on a windowsill. It was from Sir Arthur Eddington, confirming the revolutionary theory. Overjoyed by the news, the student was somewhat surprised by the master’s apparent indifference. “What if the theory had not been confirmed?” she asked. Einstein replied, “Then I would have been sorry for the dear Lord. The theory is correct.”
thats my only proof that he believed in a ‘lord’
October 13th, 2006 at 12:38 am
btw humanist, i agree
October 13th, 2006 at 12:41 am
Main Entry: 1god
Pronunciation: ‘gäd also ‘god
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English; akin to Old High German got god
1 capitalized : the supreme or ultimate reality: as a : the Being perfect in power, wisdom, and goodness who is worshipped as creator and ruler of the universe b Christian Science : the incorporeal divine Principle ruling over all as eternal Spirit : infinite Mind
2 : a being or object believed to have more than natural attributes and powers and to require human worship; specifically : one controlling a particular aspect or part of reality
3 : a person or thing of supreme value
4 : a powerful ruler
October 13th, 2006 at 12:46 am
Main Entry: athe·ist
Pronunciation: ‘A-thE-ist
Function: noun
: one who believes that there is no deity
dfnj2006 Says
When
someone has a genuine experience of the divine it can not be expressed in words.
if you believe someone can have such an experience, then you are not atheist
October 13th, 2006 at 1:11 am
I am a Muslim, a Christian and a Jew. Why? Because all three are Holy, sent from the Lord above. All three: The Quran, the Bible and the Torah tell us the story of Adam and Eve (first humans on earth- so that makes us ALL relatives) and of the creation of the world in 7 days. All three faiths underline the obedience of the commandments (all the same throughout the three Holy scripts): to be kind, respectful, merciful, patient, forgiving, generous, etc…
Lastly, we all strive for a goal: to be Worthy in God’s eyes, for His acceptance and approval on Judegment Day.
So we have different ways of prayer, different prophets, different languages, different homes of worship…on Judgement Day that will not matter. What will is YOU. Have YOU been respectful of others? Have YOU been praying? Have YOU been sinning? Have YOU meant anyone harm? People should have respect for one another, no matter what there difference are.
Only because you disagree with another person’s belief, it does not give you the right to belittle that person. Humans have a very bad habit of always wanting to be ‘right’. I don’t see the point of sitting and comparing religions; trying to figure out which is righteous. It’ll end up in chaos, because each one of us will defend their belief and slander the other.
The conclusion is: why hate if you can love? Why punish if you can forgive? Why hurt if you can heal? God Commands love, unity, peace, righteousness, to which we obey…only between the people who share OUR faith. But why not for all??
When 9/11 occured, i too was fearful. I was fearful my neighbours would avoid me. But no, as a matter of fact, my Jewish and Christian neighbours came right up to me and calmed me down, comforted me. Hugged me and told me, “It’s gonna be okay…we love you. Nothing can bring us apart.”
And we can ALL be like that….
October 13th, 2006 at 4:23 am
RVNFTHR8 indicates his own feelings and interpretations determine that
“the higher being, however you call it, is based on love and inclusion.”
Well, your higher being can’t be the same deity depicted in the Bible.
October 15th, 2006 at 1:07 am
Providing a definition for the word atheist, RVNFTHR8 Says:
October 13th, 2006 at 12:46 am
Main Entry: athe·ist
Pronunciation: ‘A-thE-ist
Function: noun
: one who believes that there is no deity
>
No one has ever given me a satisfactory answer to why the word atheist is treated differently than other words with the prefix ‘a’ which merely means WITHOUT. a+theism means WITHOUT theism. There is no need for it to mean anything else.
What is “the divine”? What is a “genuine experience of the divine”?
October 18th, 2006 at 11:17 am
I attend an Episcopal church although I do it more out of loyalty to, and love of my fellow members, than adherence to the particular dogmas of the church or to common Christianity beliefs in general. If one has a basic understanding of the art and science of yoga, they will understand that in essence, Jesus was yoga teacher, yoga being the Sanskrit word for unity. “I and my father are one” in yoga terminology is the supreme state of consciousness known as samahdi - oneness with God. It has nothing to do with belief, it is a practice verifiable through experience, and Jesus was an avatar (divine incarnation) of a particular line of gurus that ended with Paramhansa Yogananda, that lived this truth. All this becomes abundantly clear when one begins to develop the “eye to see and the ear to hear”. The great reality about yoga is that it is all inclusive without being contradictory.
October 19th, 2006 at 2:59 pm
“So called Christians” A group of believers that would rather argue their points (many points) than walk through their lives being the person Jesus wants them to be.
By these actions others will know what they believe or be Interested in what they believe and they will have a chance to pass on what they know. My dad always said “Do what I say…Not what I do.” Many “So called Christians ” today want to argue all the fine points of the Bible; (which is the inspired word of God); but they can’t just walk. Are they worried no one will notice them? So many of them are so loud, I wonder if they are just worried about the possibillity of being wrong. After reading this book I feel even more grounded in my faith and my relationship with Jesus and My Father God. Want a good recipe for spreading the “word” about Jesus? Read 2 Peter 1:3-10; It talks about applying yourself with virtue, knowledge, self-control, endurance, devotion, mutual affection and (guess what?) LOVE. If these are yours and increase in abundance, they will keep you from being idle or unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. Anyone who lacks them is blind an shortsighted, forgetful of the cleansing of his past sins. Doesnt say anything about proving your point by argueing and making people feel stupid who don’t think like you do. “So called Christians” drive more people anyway from Jesus with this attitude that they bring to them……I wonder is that somthing we will have to awnser for on judgement day.
October 21st, 2006 at 9:16 pm
my reply to live4truth; determining truth is relative, as we have seen throughout this discussion. however, i will explain my relative truth…which is loveing and careing about all life. recycling bottles and cans and paper, viewing nature with awe, stoping a kid from throwing rocks at baby ducks in a pond, helping your child w/ homework willingly, not getting pissed off in the check out line when its taking too long, picking up trash in the park/street/lot, asking questions and not judging, praising ur kids every chance u get..it goes on and on, but ya’ll get the gist
i gotta go make brownies with my daughter now, thats not in the bible, but it truth to me…
live4Truth Says:
October 3rd, 2006 at 6:25 pm
I would like to pose this question to anyone who has a relationship with God, but is not connected to a church. How do you determine what is truth? I’m not suggesting that your relationship with God is false…I don’t know you. And I don’t want to be misunderstood as saying that we cannot hear God speak and direct our lives. I certainly don’t think we should get caught up in legalistic religion, but the question still remains. There are so many interpretations of the Bible out there, so many opportunities to be misguided. And those who proclaim false beliefs are skilled at appearing biblical, or they may not even know that their beliefs are wrong because what they are teaching seems right to them. If you are not connected to a body of believers with a core set of beliefs, who holds you accountable? How do you know God and know truth when everyone out there has a different opinion of what that is?
October 21st, 2006 at 9:57 pm
humanist Says:
October 13th, 2006 at 4:23 am
RVNFTHR8 indicates his own feelings and interpretations determine that
“the higher being, however you call it, is based on love and inclusion.”
Well, your higher being can’t be the same deity depicted in the Bible.
rvnfthr8 is a she, and ur right, when you look at the old testament. however, dispite what the others on here (specifically becca and truth) say, i interpret jesus differently i guess, cuz i believe jesus was loving and caring and all inclusive…my interpretation only… from what i gather here.
October 21st, 2006 at 10:03 pm
my grand mother had 9 kids, the doctor told her that if she has another (the 9th was quite difficult) shed have to abort or die. The doctor suggested getting her tubes tied to save her life. she did. the church excommunicated her for it.
thats not the god i believe in. thats human control of the masses.
so because she chose to save her life, she was no longer able to worship in the church she grew up in. god blessed her, we all still worship dispite the religion that excommunicated her.
October 21st, 2006 at 10:37 pm
we tend to talk often on here about what jesus said, and quote the new testement freely, to prove our points. how about the truths in the bible, quotes, that arent being mentioned yet still pack a punch…like those about slavery, subjugation of women, etc…
here i will post a couple of such biblical quotes in hopes of an intellegent response from becca and truth and others as well….about slavery, adornment, homosexuality…
http://www.religioustolerance.org/sla_bibl2.htm
http://www.actseighteen.com/articles/jewelry-bible.htm
http://www.rdrop.com/~jimka/treties.html
October 30th, 2006 at 11:24 am
Wow, I didn’t read all the comments about this question, but it feels like a lot of judging going on is some cases. RVNGTHR8- I am so sorry your family has had such negative experiences with organized religion, especially your grandmother.
I grew up going to several mainstream churches, but when I was 21 years old I joined the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and have been actively involved in that church for 31 years now. As to the question of why— I had a real problem with the idea of the holy trinity as explained to me by my pastors, and I also felt that the Jesus I knew and loved wouldn’t send God’s children to Hell because they hadn’t had the opportunity to learn of Him on earth and accept Him, etc. In fact, I had a real problem with people going to Hell who lived righteous, good lives, but who grew up in faiths like Muslim, Judism, etc.
The LDS faith believes that we lived with our Heavenly Father as His spirit children before we came to earth, and came here to receive a physical body and have a time of testing and trials, apart from His presence, and make choices of our own free will to decided how we would live. We believe He gave us the plan of salvation whereby our faith in Jesus Christ and our striving always to follow His perfect example of how to live our lives and treat others would allow our sins to be forgiven and for us to return to live with God some day. We also believe that there are multiple kingdoms in Heaven and “born again” Christians aren’t the only people who will go to Heaven. All of us will have the chance to learn of Him and His gospel either in this life or in the Spirit World where our spirits go from death until the resurrection. We believe we continue to grow and learn after our deaths. We believe that very few will permanently end up in what most people think of as Hell. Those are some of the reasons I converted to this church.
I have had to learn how to deal with stereotypical judgements made on me because of my membership in my church. People seriously ask if Mormons have horns, etc. I am not kidding! We are often referred to as a non-Christian cult which is pretty silly since Jesus Christ is the basis for our church and all of its beliefs. We believe He is the divine Son of God who atoned for our sins, was crucified, and resurrected. Have not figured out how that makes me a non-Christian.
I hope The Faith Club and this website can be a place of peace and love where we can freely express our feelings and questions and needs and not be judged. I crave to learn more about women of many faiths, particularly those who are non-Christian, so my knowledge and understanding of all people can be enlarged. In my view, if this world is ever to find peace it will be by more knowledge and greater understanding of all God’s children. God will ultimately be our judge and I think we would be better off if we stopped trying to take that job away from Him and exercise it ourselves. I hope anyone who reads my comments will know that anything I say regarding my church and my beliefs is strictly in answer to the questions posed on the website–I don’t want women to think I am trying to prosyletize. Thanks
November 1st, 2006 at 1:32 am
what i wanna know is why is god anthropamorphisized? and more than that, in the form of a male? and capitalized even?
November 6th, 2006 at 10:26 am
I am a Christian. I have always believed that religion is what is determined by man, spirituality is a relationship with Christ. I have been a member of many churches and the doctrine changes from one to another but my relationship with Christ remains consistent. When someone asks me what I am, I say that I am a child of God. The Church is made up of all believers, the churches are a group of individual organizations. What is important to me is what is in my heart…that is the love of Christ for all people. We are all children of God and should treat each other accordingly. Some of His children choose to walk their own paths, some choose to walk a path according to teachings in the Judeo-Christian tradition. I am a missionary that has worked in many countries with people of many different beliefs. I have shown respect for all beliefs and have had discussions with many with diverse belief systems. I have learned a lot from others and it has just strengthened my convictions that what I believe is what is the best path for me.
November 6th, 2006 at 10:52 am
RE: Liahona…
I was also a Mormon several years back. Spent 12 years in the LDS Church. I grew in my walk with the Lord during that time. I studied the Bible as all Mormons do. I left the church not because of the religion but because of the ignorance of the leaders in my Ward. The Mormons are some of the best Christians I have ever known. They live their beliefs. Although no longer a Mormon, I am one of the greatest fans of the Mormons. If we truly want to find some common interests with others, we can all have a dialogue. I teach a course in the American Red Cross called, “Working with Total Diversity” which encourages all people to foster inclusive, not exclusive, relationships. I want to know why people act and react the way they do. If I offend someone I want to know why my actions or words were offensive so that I will not make that mistake again. This site is a great step to better understanding.
December 25th, 2006 at 9:40 pm
I’m new to the Faith Club as of yesterday and am still catching up on all the entries. There is so much food for thought here.
My faith/religion is Jewish though, technically, Judaism is not a religion or faith; it is a way of life. I choose to be Jewish because, for me, it fits me like a glove. I don’t claim to understand everything there is to know about scripture, and I don’t claim Judaism to be the “way, the truth, and the light.” As far as my limited human understanding goes, it makes sense to me, and the Jewish God makes sense to me. I don’t presume to suggest that it should be so for everyone.
I’d like to address a few things in this conversation that caught my eye:
First of all, evolution. Like some of the others, I accept the Theory of Evolution as fact. I don’t see it as a denial of God, I see it as a tool God used to bring about creation. Maybe I should learn to think inside boxes, but the creation story in Genesis I suggests a progression over time, and the Biblical progression coincides with the evolutionary theory, such as that life began first in water and that humans were the last beings created. I realize that conservatives of all three Abrahamic faiths reject this.
Second, someone asked what is righteousness. Hebrew can provide an answer. In Hebrew, the root letters for the word righteousness (tzadik) are tzadi-dalet-kaf. The the root letters for charity (tzedekah) are the same: tzadi-dalet-kaf. When words share the same root, it means they have a very close relationship with each other. Thus, charity is righteousness, and righteousness is charity. I realize this answer is unacceptable to Christians, but maybe the questioner might find some value to it.
The discussions I’ve been reading here are just like the ones I read on Jewish message boards: everyone arguing that their interpretation of Torah is correct, and if you ain’t Orthodox, you ain’t Jewish. It’s OK to disagree. But I believe - in the spirit of the Faith Club - that disagreements stay respectful and courteous. If we disagree, we just agree to disagree. I’ll never prove that my interpretation of Torah is correct, and nobody will prove their interpretation is correct.
Incidentally, I find it fascinating that science has discovered humans may have a DNA-centered need for a belief in God, that their belief in and surety of may be DNA-deep. Now the question becomes: Did that occur naturally or supernaturally?
January 16th, 2007 at 12:37 am
My religion? The question makes no sense to me. I do have an idea of a “right” and “wrong”, but i also realize that is different from one person to the next. I would say religion has scarred me negatively and i care for it not but I would love to have a big daddy in the sky who looks after me. I still romance some things in life.
November 28th, 2009 at 8:12 pm
I noticed that many of the bloggers insist that one must have “a personal relationship” with Christ in order to have any hope of heaven. If a so-called “personal relationship” is our ticket to eternal life, it seems to me that those who claim to have it should be able to define its meaning. Also, I checked my Bible, the Koran and the Torah, and, guess what! I couldn’t find the term “personal relationship” in any of them. What’s going on here? Maybe somebody is just making things up.