Who Gets to Heaven?
Do all good people end in heaven? Do you believe in the afterlife and why?
20 Responses to “Who Gets to Heaven?”
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Do all good people end in heaven? Do you believe in the afterlife and why?
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October 10th, 2006 at 10:49 am
This is an interesting question given the discussion elsewhere in this blog. I think the answer is yes. I believe God rewards good deeds with a good afterlife, regardless of the person’s motivation. I find it an incredible though that God would focus on the means (”a personal relationship with the Lord”) rather than the ends (”leading a good life”). A personal relationship with the Lord is meaningless if it does not result in living a life in the image of Christ. Inversely, living a good life, (living as Christians would say “in the image of Christ”) doing good deeds, treating your fellow man as you wish to be treated, is meaningful (and rewarded) regardless of whether one is Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Humanist, Buddhist, Aethist or whatever religionor non-religion one claims.
October 12th, 2006 at 1:23 pm
Many years ago I was arguing over the existence of God with a born-again Christian. We were really getting into it and judging by his red face and spit coming out of his mouth while he was talking he was really angry and unhappy with me. He started talking about where my soul was going to go when I die and eternal damnation. At which point, I replied, “How bad can it be it can’t be? It can’t be worse than living in New Jersey”. He didn’t even crack a smile. This guy was engineer so I decided to accept my fate and I started talking about what Hell would be like as a way of changing the subject. I said if Hell was a never ending repetitive pain that eventually I would get used to it and it would no longer hurt me anymore. He chuckled a bit on that point. So then I said Hell must be like a non-terminating non-repeating pain like an irrational number so I would never get used to it and
I would suffer for all eternity. He really liked that idea so we ended conversation and we both went back to work.
Since that discussion many years ago I’ve come to refine my view on what the metaphysics of Hell must be like. I think Hell has the opposite metaphysics of being alive on Earth. On Earth you have fixed laws of physics and you are bounded by your own human limitations. When you are in Hell you have the power of
omnipotence. An omnipotent God is fully capable of giving the power of omnipotence to someone else. At first thought this may sound like a really cool deal. When you die and go to Hell you get to have sex with two chicks! In fact, you get to have sex with two chicks over one million times! In fact, you get to have sex
with everyone in Hell over one million times! You get to read every book ever published or will ever be published. You get to play every board game ever invented or ever will be invented until you become an expert. Finally you will be able to perfect your ultimate Risk strategy. You get to play every video game ever invented until you are an expert. You get to do anything and everything you can
imagine to do as many times as your heart desires. This may sound like a really cool deal. However….after about one millions times of doing anything you will become bored. That’s the rub. After a short time everyone in Hell becomes extremely bored. Not the type of boredom where you think you’ll go surf the internet or watch TV will resolve. No, not that kind of boredom. The kind of abject total complete utter mind bending count the drops from dripping faucet kind of boredom!
Meanwhile, what happens to the people who make into Heaven? When you die and go to Heaven, after entering the pearly gates, you come to look into the face God. The idea of looking into the face of God comes from comments I heard made by Joseph Campbell in his Power of Myth interview with Bill Moyers. When looking into the face of God you become overwelmed with a feeling of immersion with God’s consciousness. You achieve a total blissful communion with God and completely lose your own identity or sense of “self”. You are so enamored looking into the face of God, that you do not experience “self”, time, or any conscious thought at all. All you experience is a constant enternal blissful peace with the creator. You never get bored because you have no sense of self. While this is happening, the spirits down in Hell are sitting around thinking about something worthwhile to do.
So which is better, a blissful non-existence, or never ending boredom? I think what happens is eventually everyone turns to and looks into the face of God. Eventually everyone communes with God out of boredom. I am sure some Christians out there reading this are thinking once you are in Hell you can never turn and look into the face of God. Obviously these people have never lived in New Jersey! It may be that everyone goes to Hell at first no matter what you do in this life. So if you accept all this isn’t it a nice thought to think that everyone will eventually make it into heaven. Everyone will eventually turn and look into the face of God. Everyone will be saved! Everyone will eventually experience a blissful communion with our creator.
People who turn and look into the face of God right away just get there a little sooner.
October 13th, 2006 at 2:14 pm
One reaps what one sows. This side of the grave or the other does not matter. In Luke 17:21 Jesus says the “kingdom of heaven lies within us”. Anyone who has a true understanding of yoga knows this to be so, in fact Jesus was a yoga teacher in the most purest sense of the practice. As one’s attunement to God increases, that “mystical” heaven within becomes the reality that governs our actions. One’s attunement to God is greaty accelerated by the grace of the guru (teacher/master) who has already traveled the road to enlightenment. In the Bhagavad Gita Krishna says to work without thought of reward, similar to Jesus statement, do not let the right hand know what the left is doing. This lets us know that if one is thinking of a reward, they’re missing the heaven which is, always has been, and always will be, here and now.
October 13th, 2006 at 7:29 pm
yeah I agree with yesitdo pretty much. I do beleive in a soul that has to live on somehow. While I’m not sure of the exact details I think there must be something afterwords. But I don’t think anyone who treats others kindly and is good to God’s creation will be separated from it when they die.
October 28th, 2006 at 4:28 pm
with regard to what dfnj2006 said..that is definatly an interpretation of ‘heaven and hell’.
what i believe is that all of us go to the other side regardless of how we live here. the difference is, once on the other side, we become our own judges. we will have to answer to ourselves, but in spiritual form, energy form. once our bodies can no longer sustain, the body dies. like food. it only lasts so long before it dies and rots. the energy with in this body ‘our spirit, soul, if you will’ does not die. energy can not be created or destroyed, it always has been and always will be.
October 29th, 2006 at 2:25 pm
I agree with “yesitdo”. The most important thing is to live an honest, helpful, positive, loving life and to follow what we have come to think of as the “Christian ideals.” There are many people who are raised in many religions, all worshipping God, and attempting to follow the many examples given by the various prophets of various religions. Do I personally believe in Heaven and an afterlife–yes I do. I believe we lived with God as His spirit children before we came to this earth, and I believe that after the resurrection our bodies and spirits will be united and made immortal and we will continue to live and progress. I believe we will basically be the same person then as we are now; I don’t believe death will radically change the type of person we are. I believe there are many kingdoms in Heaven and very few will end up in “outer darkness” in what most people think of as Hell.
November 11th, 2006 at 3:52 pm
Good people go to heaven no matter what your religious belief because the spirit world is a realm of heart. It is the level of your heart that matters. How much love is in there. If you were able to truly love people and live for their benefit in your earthly life, you will be in heaven. If you lived a selfish life, concerned only with your own benefit, you go to that other place. God doesn’t decide this; you do. As Jesus said, “Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven…” Religious teachings are valuable in so much as they help us to become more loving and unselfish people. In this sense every religion has its value. It’s the misuse of religious teachings that is the problem.
November 30th, 2006 at 2:53 pm
A Pentecostal minister, head of a mega church in Tulsa, Oklahoma, destroyed his own career - at least for awhile - by declaring that there is no hell. He was watching the suffering refugees in Africa, mostly Muslim, starving mothers and children and states that he clearly heard God tell him that sending people to hell was not what God was about. The minister’s name is Carlton Pearson.
I often wonder at our country - we declare ourselves to be a “Christian” country. We’re not and not just becuase there is a big diverse religious population out there. We like vengeance too much. I mean - we really really like it. Our prison system, welfare system, war industry and gun mania all point to a people who like being a kind of vengeful arm of God. I think our prison system is particularly horrific (and that’s saying a lot). there are some human being who are so broken, so dangerous that they will never be able to live in community with the rest of us. I accept that - it is tragic and perhaps can be prevented, but is a reality of life. But, we seem to enjoy the fact that these broken human beings should be treated as less than human. And we put a lot of mixed up kids in jail with them and create a terrible atmosphere of violence and hatred and racisim. then we put em in small towns - prisons support small towns the way small manufacturing and family farms used to - I could go on, but you can see the end product. Over 2.5 % of our popularion is in jail, has been in jail or is on probation. At any rate - Walter Wink - might say that we live not in the memory of the Judeo-Muslim-Christian creation myths, but of the Babylonian myths where violence and vengeance are a virtue and forgiveness reveals weakness. At any rate - the idea of vengeance as a way of being makes me sad. I see it in America, in the old Soviet Union, in Eastern and Western Europe, in the Middle East - well - can’t think of any exceptions right now. It appears that this residual and sacrificial way of living must be abandoned by all religions. How might that happen? Gandhi certainly understood that freedom is dependent on the way we treat one another. I believe it was Gandhi who said that “an eye for an eye makes you both blind.”
December 14th, 2006 at 2:51 pm
I do believe in an afterlife, because the Bible supports that belief. Also, for a personal reflection, when my Mother passed away, I remember looking at her body as she lay and I realized that her soul was no longer in her physical body. That was a revelation to me. It did not bother me to view her remains because she was not there.
December 20th, 2006 at 8:29 am
As difficult as it might be to comprehend, the Bible, which is the ABSOLUTE guide for all true Christians, states that fallen mankind is, by nature, a sinful being (Psalm 51:5 et al). This means that, according to the very being, he (or she) is an enemy of God (Romans 8:7). Based on this knowledge we can understand Paul’s comments in Romans chapter 3:10-20;
10 There is none righteous, no, not one;
11 There is none who understands;
There is none who seeks after God.
12 They have all turned aside;
They have together become unprofitable;
There is none who does good, no, not one.”
13 Their throat is an open tomb;
With their tongues they have practiced deceit;
The poison of asps is under their lips;
14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness.
15 Their feet are swift to shed blood;
16 Destruction and misery are in their ways;
17 And the way of peace they have not known.
18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.
19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
The long and the short of it is this, there are no ‘good’ people in God’s sight!!! This is why Christ is so essential to our entry heaven. By faith in His righteousness (His goodness) we can be saved. Without it we are condemned by our sin and will never see nor enter God’s kingdom (John 3:3,5).
December 25th, 2006 at 7:37 pm
In response to what ehtaca wrote, there are many verses in the Jewish Bible that refer to righteous people, and not in some futuristic messianic sense but in the sense that they can and do exist in reality.
I haven’t decided whether there’s an afterlife or heaven/hell or not. My jury might remain out until I find out for myself. I agree with what some of the other contributors have written, about creating our own heaven/hell. I know there are many stories of people who have died and had an afterdeath experience that they can remember very vividly when revived. These stories are fascinating, and the effect they have on the people is inspiring. But science has an explanation for these experiences so I’m not sure how to interpret them. I keep an open mind.
Judaism is concerned about the here and now, making this life holy and sanctifying our lives while we’re alive. This might have a historical context because much of Jewish thought was forged during the Egyptian experience. Pharaonic Egypt was somewhat obsessed with death given their elaborate burial customs. As a way of throwing off the yoke of Egypt, the Hebrews might have deliberately abandoned thoughts of the afterlife and focused instead on living.
A life well-lived is its own reward.
December 29th, 2006 at 1:15 am
I really must correct this misconception that Judaism does not hold in its philosophy and theology the concept of an afterlife. While I am thoroughly thankful and amazed and impressed by all three of the authors and while all three of them seem to be intelligent, kind, generous, and empathetic women, there were some ideas put forth in the book that were incorrect in regards to the Jewish faith. One of these was the idea that there is no “Heaven”.
Judaism certainly has in its history, see talmud, mishna, midrashim and even the Tanach will mention this, it is called Olam HaBa, the World to Come. There is evidence that can be brought from the text of the Torah to prove this idea, the Torah indi cates in several places that those who are considered tzadikim, righteous, will be reunited with their loved ones after death, while those considered rashim, wicked, will be excluded from this reunion. And yes, there is a also a tradition of “Hell” in Judaism. It is not neccessarily eternal, the ideas of the afterlife are open to debate, because Judaism is not about abstract possibilities of life after death.
Judaism message is “You are here, now, make the most of it, be the best person you can be, be the best Jew if you are Jew, be the best gentile if you are a gentile, help the world become a better place” if this is followed in life, there will be no fear of spiritual punishment after death.
But there is very certainly a tradition of afterlife in Judaism, the Torah often mentions how somone is “gathered to his peoples”, and it is described as a separate event from the physical death of the body or the burial/funeral. There are alos certain sins punishable by kareit or kareis, the spirtual excision from your people, this means that the soul loses it portion in the Olam Haba, the World to Come.
The Jews are constantly in hope that their messiah will soon arrive, this is what is meant by the constant invoking of “Next Year in Jerusalem!”, this means “By this time next year, the messiah will have come and we will be living a a sort of “heaven on earth” in jerusalem, there will be peace in the world, between Jews and Gentiles”.
The Talmud teaches that “This world is like the eve of Shabbat, the Sabbath, and the Olam Ha-Ba, the World to Come is like Shabbat. He who prepares on the eve of Shabbat will have food to eat on Shabbat.” We prepare ourselves for the Olam Ha-Ba through Torah study and mitzvot, the plural of the word mitzvah, which means commandment.
In the book the word mitzvah was translated as “good deed” this is a common misconception and I am not quite sure how it developed, perhaps it is a colloquialism of modern American English among American Jews, however, the word mitzvah, comes from the word tzava, to command, the letters mem and yud at the beginning of the word creating the “Mi” sound mean “From God”, “Mitzvah, therefore is literally a divine commandment.
I guess I got a little bit off track, but it was upsetting me that people were under the impression that Judaism has no concept of an afterlife and that the religion belives death is the end, there is nothing after. That is not the case. I was raised in a Jewish household and had an extensive jewish education. I am majoring in Comparative Religion, currently with an emphasis on the Abrahamic Faiths. I lvoe this books, I love these women for beginning this project and supporting the spread of the same ideas across the world. But i also feel that correct information must be put forth.
December 31st, 2006 at 1:37 am
I have been struggling with whether or not to post a comment. (This is Priscilla speaking.) And then I came across this posting:
“The discussions I’ve been reading here are just like the ones I read on Jewish message boards: everyone arguing that their interpretation of Torah is correct, and if you ain’t Orthodox, you ain’t Jewish. It’s OK to disagree. But I believe - in the spirit of the Faith Club - that disagreements stay respectful and courteous. If we disagree, we just agree to disagree. I’ll never prove that my interpretation of Torah is correct, and nobody will prove their interpretation is correct.”
So, “in the spirit of The Faith Club,” I decided to address a comment that “when a Jew does not represent all of Judaism, particularly excluding the traditional end from which it all stems, they are doing the rest of the world a disservice.”
I am sorry if anyone is disappointed that I have not “correctly” represented the Jewish concept of an afterlife in The Faith Club. I specifically stated in the book that I represent just one Jew’s experience and opinion. I did not write this book with the intention of “representing all of Judaism.” The biggest lesson I learned from this experience was the importance of humility, and I certainly never meant to represent myself as an authority on anything but my own struggle to live life with grace, as a human being raised as a Jew.
I want to be very clear that I have found everyone’s postings to be fascinating and informative, and I thank everyone very much for their personal, meaningful, enthusiastic and well-researched participation.
What I would like to say in terms of my eternal struggle to understand life and death is that at my time of deepest sorrow - on the occasion of my father’s death and at other heartbreaking funerals I have attended – deeply spiritual, well-educated reform rabbis have shaped my viewpoint that I have not been promised a definitive afterlife by God. I have lived with that concept for much of my adult life, and ask that it be respected. I spend a great deal of time lately dealing with the concept of my own mortality, and my struggle is deeply personal. The more I think about the issue of an afterlife, the more I embrace the mystery of not having been given any definitive answers by my rabbis. I have spoken with Jews who have a different viewpoint, but, as I said, my comments reflect my own personal beliefs. I have embraced the unknowable aspect of what an afterlife is. The fact that I do not have all the answers to life’s complex problems (or even some of my own day-to-day issues!) is humbling, liberating and challenging.
December 31st, 2006 at 4:40 am
Priscilla:
I am sorry that you felt I was not respecting your belief that you have no definitive afterlife. Perhaps I become too strident on certain points concerning mainstream American society’s view of Judaism simply because I have had intelligent, educated people ask me the strangest things, or assume things regarding Judaism that simply are not true.
I would like to note that though I had a Jewish education and i currently study the Abrahamic Faiths in a comparative religion program, I am not an Orthodox Jew and in fact struggle with many of the same doubts about God and concerns about faith that you relate in the book.
My response was that in the Chapter “Where are you God?” you tell both Ranya and Suzanne “Jews don’t have the promise of an afterlife.” And as I just completed a section of learning on precisely that topic I was surprised to see that statement. I have not studied Reform Jewish philosophy and so this is obviously something that is not believed in the Reform movement. I guess you did mention in the book that your rabbi was Reform but perhaps it upset me that your statement did not include the word “Reform”. Someone posted something on this site about Jews not having an afterlife because of the statement you made, you referred to Jews, not Reform Jews and so the impression, at least to me and that person who posted the comment, seemed a blanket statement about all jewish belief. And I guess that is why I said that I felt all of Judaism should be represented, but you are right. That is unreasonable and unrealistic to expect one person to be a representative of all denominations of one religion. I suppose I just wished you might have been more specific in your statements regarding Jewish beliefs. And again perhaps my very strong reaction is simply because i just recently completed a section on Jewish writings and ideas of the afterlife and was shocked to see all of that dismissed.
However, I do apologize for sounding as if I do not think you are “correctly” practicing Judaism, as I do not practice or follow or observe any parts of it at all, I have no opinion on Reform vs Orthodox. Perhaps I should begin to research the philosophies of Modern movements within the Abrahamic faiths so as to get a more balanced perspective of practitioners therein.
Please accept my apologies for offending you and disrespecting your beliefs. I really do appreciate this book in ways too tremendous to detail. I have laerned a great deal and in very specific awe of you, and your co-authors.
December 31st, 2006 at 9:52 am
Malka, I think you might have been confusing me with Priscilla. It was me who wrote the offending posting. I didn’t mean to speak for all Jews; I couldn’t possibly do that. From now on, I’ll try to be more specific about what I’m addressing. So sorry for the confusion.
December 31st, 2006 at 11:23 am
Priscilla here again!
“No worries,” as a laid back friend of mine likes to say. I have really enjoyed reading all the postings on our blog, am thrilled and grateful for the discussions taking place. In fact, I feel I have learned a great deal about aspects of my own religion that I had never researched. And yes, perhaps if I had said “Reform Jews don’t have the promise of an afterlife” it would have been more clear that I was speaking as a reform Jew. But back when we had these discussions, Ranya and Suzanne knew that fact very well!
Again, thanks for all of the stimulating conversations!
December 31st, 2006 at 3:56 pm
My knowledge of Judaism is uneven; there are holes in my Jewish education. I’m not a Talmid Chacham like other writers here. If I had the time and financial resources to go to rabbinic seminary, I would. There is a lifetime of knowledge to learn, and I got a late start. I apologize for presenting an inaccurate picture of Judaism; what I’ve written comes from my limited understanding.
December 31st, 2006 at 5:39 pm
Cytocop,
You seem very well-versed in Judaism. And I did not feel you were presenting an inaccurate picture, my annoyiongly strident comments that were inappropriate were for a comment made near the beginning of the book, they were not directed at you .
Everything you’ve posted seems very thoughtful and researched.
January 1st, 2007 at 12:19 am
Malka, thank you for your very kind words.
To return to the original question, there are dozens of verses in the Jewish Bible that affirm that good people do go to heaven. In Judaism, it is our repentence and conduct that count. A few samples from Ezekiel:
18:9: “(he that) Hath walked in my statutes and hath kept my judgments to deal truly; he is just, he shall surely live…”
18:17: “(a son) that… hath executed my judgments, hath walked in my statutes, he shall not die for the iniquity of his father, he shall surely live.”
18:20: “The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.”
18:21: “But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed and keep all my statues and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die…”
18:22: “All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.”
And from Psalms:
51:17: “The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.”
139:8: “If I acend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.”
145:20: “The Lord preserveth all them that love him…”
Deuteronomy 30:2-3: “Thou shalt return to the Lord… and obey His voice… that the Lord will have compassion on thee…”
Isaiah 55:7: “Let the wicked forsake his ways… and let him return to the Lord, and he will have mercy on him; he will abundantly pardon.”
In Judaism, mankind is surely not depraved and condemned. We have the power to save ourselves. It wouldn’t make sense for God to give us the Law if we were incapable of it. I know what Christian scriptures say on the subject. I’d like to know what the Qur’an has to say.
I wish everyone a very happy, healthy (and safe!) 2007.
August 5th, 2007 at 11:43 pm
So I realize this is a very old post and probably no one will read it, but I am new to this blog and have to recommend this beautiful book: Good Goats: Healing Our Image of God, by Dennis, Sheila, and Matthew Linn. They argue that because God loves everyone unconditionally, we can indeed hope that God will heal and save everyone. It’s written from the Christian and specifically the Catholic tradition, but I think it could be meaningful for anyone who’s suffered from a judgmental image of God–their own or other people’s.
Because I am Christian, I believe that salvation is through Christ–but this does NOT mean that only those who self-identify as Christian go to heaven. Jesus came for everyone, and the important thing is to follow in the way of Jesus, which is love. Anyone of any religion, or none, can live in love, and “God is love, and all who live in love live in God, and God in them” (1 John 4:16).